Episode 53
“At the end of the day, we just want more people to ride bikes and be happy riding bikes”
Chances are you’ve seen this week’s guest snapping some photos around the track– join us this week as Joan talks with Trevor Raab, staff photographer for Bicycling Magazine and Runner’s World. Trevor and Joan talk how he got into cycling, finding photography and his experience shooting at the track, and his idea for a photography internship. Check out the show notes to get in contact with Trevor about getting his internship program off the ground!
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/trevorraab/
Website: https://trevorraab.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/trevor.raab
Email: raabtrevor@gmail.com
Thanks to B Braun Medical Inc. for sponsoring the Talk of the T-Town Podcast. BBraun is a global leader in infusion therapy and pain management, B Braun develops, manufactures and markets innovative medical products to the healthcare community. They are also strong believers in supporting the quality of life in the communities where their employees work and live.
Transcript
Joan Hanscom:
Welcome to the Talk of the T-Town podcast, where we discuss all things track cycling. Broadcasting from the Valley Preferred Cycling Center, I’m your host and executive director, Joan Hanscom.
Joan Hanscom:
Welcome to the Talk of the T-Town podcast. We are joined this week by someone who regular T-Town growers may have seen around the track, not racing, but actually taking some of the great images we are used to seeing that come out of our track and that you see on our social media feeds. Our guest today is Trevor Raab, and Trevor, welcome to the show.
Trevor Raab:
Thanks for having me. Excited to be here.
Joan Hanscom:
So before we really jump into things, you’re on the East coast, I’m on the West coast. It’s been cold and snowy. Have you been able to get out and ride?
Trevor Raab:
Not really too much. Every time it’s warm enough, I’ve been sneaking out on a mountain bike. Most of the other time is just being silly, doing too series of Zwift racing, but that’s been fun.
Joan Hanscom:
Nice. Well, I’m glad you’re able to get out and enjoy when it is possible to get out and enjoy. I don’t miss that weather at all, although I should probably do some Zwift racing. I should probably do it, but I’m not. So Trevor, we wanted to have you on the podcast to A, let people get to know you and know what to do a little bit and also to talk about some very cool things that you’re cooking up for the upcoming season. So before we do that, a little bit of background on you. You started photography really when you were a college student, if I understand this correctly, tell us a little bit about your genesis as a photographer.
Trevor Raab:
Yeah. It started out towards the middle of my high school time. When I was skateboarding a lot, I just started out trying to film skateboarding. And I think I had little patience for that. So I liked the results of photography better, and was always drawn to that, and then took some photo classes towards the end of high school. And I was like “Oh.” I was one of those people who had no clue what they were going to do out of high school. And then it clicked. So then I ended up going to school for photo in Rochester, New York at RIT. And that’s where everything started to feel right, and just went through that whole program and learned a lot about the technical side and the art side of photo. And that’s how I got to start. And then through that process, I always had an interest in bikes. So eventually it was able to form into a nice thing that works together.
Joan Hanscom:
[inaudible 00:03:00] That turned into a job.
Trevor Raab:
Yeah.
Joan Hanscom:
So you grew up outside of Philly, is that correct, in the Philly area?
Trevor Raab:
Yeah. I grew up in the Lehigh Valley.
Joan Hanscom:
Oh, okay.
Trevor Raab:
Yeah. I grew up in Nazareth, which is not super far from the track. Although when I was a kid, I knew the track was there, but didn’t ever really go to the track. Should have gone to the track, but never did. So I grew up in the Lehigh Valley, just was always active and my dad was a mountain biker. So it was bikes were always around. It was something that just felt normal, but it wasn’t something that I dove head first into immediately. But eventually, I got there.
Joan Hanscom:
Right on. And so now, if we had to say, “Pick your weapon of choice.” Which bike would you pick?
Trevor Raab:
It’s the hardest question.
Joan Hanscom:
Yeah.
Trevor Raab:
I think, pure fun, it’s the big travel Enduro bike. Just when you go riding you’re not thinking about anything but just going fast and seeing how much faster you can go without having to worry about fitness. But then there’s still something I like about warm summer days, and hopping on my road bike, and just going for, I don’t know, 7,800 miles and just suffering. There’s two sides to me there. I like both.
Joan Hanscom:
For sure. That’s funny. I was just having a conversation with somebody else about that. I’m the opposite, though. I don’t like going downhill fast. I don’t like when gravity makes me fast, but I really like when my legs make me go fast, I enjoy the discomfort of smashing it on the road bike, because I really, for some reason, enjoy that. And so it’s a weird way to enjoy speed, I guess, is like, “I don’t like it when I just- “
Trevor Raab:
I get that.
Joan Hanscom:
” … doing it.”
Trevor Raab:
Yeah. I like the self inflicted pain, going up a climb, and when you get in that rhythm and you really know that you’re pushing a good pace and you know it should be hurting really bad, but you’re just enjoying it so much. So it’s somehow working. Yeah. I like that part of the road bike, or any bike, really.
Joan Hanscom:
Yeah. That’s funny, because that’s exactly how I came to that realization. It was just this past weekend as I was riding here, and it’s about an hour and a half climb. And I was just like, “Oh, this hurts, but it’s really good.” And then after the hour and a half climb, there’s a 40 minute descent. And I was like, “Oh, I don’t really enjoy this as much as the hour and a half climb.” So it’s funny how that all works in your head.
Trevor Raab:
Yeah.
Joan Hanscom:
But so you transition from skateboarding to bikes because bikes were always around. And I know, because I’ve been in races with you. You’re pretty handy as a bike racer. Tell us a little bit about bike racing and what you’re up to for the ’22 season, if anything.
Trevor Raab:
Well, ’22, I’m hoping is more of a real season for me because the last couple seasons didn’t work out so well. So my bike racing is dabbling in road racing, getting bummed that I can’t sprint, and looking for road races that there’s climbs, and then doing those. And that still doesn’t work so well, but mainly racing cyclocross, occasionally jumping in an endurance cross country race, sometimes actually racing Enduro mountain bikes. But this year I’d like to do a few road races, build some fitness, and go into cyclocross season, which is probably the season that I race the most and care about the most. So I’m hoping to go pretty good into cyclocross season, because last season I missed a lot of, because I broke my wrist racing a crit, which, classic. And then-
Joan Hanscom:
What-
Trevor Raab:
… that was-
Joan Hanscom:
Were you a victim of the Easton crit, too?
Trevor Raab:
Yeah. Me and Elliston broke our wrist together, the same crash.
Joan Hanscom:
Oh sweet.
Trevor Raab:
Yeah.
Joan Hanscom:
There you go though.
Trevor Raab:
Yeah, there’s-
Joan Hanscom:
It’s a-
Trevor Raab:
There’s a video somewhere. My head’s almost on the ground and my feet are in the air. And my feet are hitting Elliston. And then he is falling next to me. So-
Joan Hanscom:
Sweet. That sounds-
Trevor Raab:
That’s how that happened, yeah.
Joan Hanscom:
All right. There you-
Trevor Raab:
He got up.
Joan Hanscom:
… go. Was it-
Trevor Raab:
He got up and finished the race and I was like, “No, I’m done.”
Joan Hanscom:
Whose intelligence does that speak to?
Trevor Raab:
I don’t know. We’ll-
Joan Hanscom:
Oh, no. After it’s=
Trevor Raab:
… go with mine for this one.
Joan Hanscom:
Yeah. I’m voting with you. After that race I was talking to him, I was like, “Hey, how’d it go? You looked like you ride pretty well.” And he was like, “Yeah, I rode pretty well except for the broken wrist.” And I was like, “Oh, damn. Yeah.” Getting back in, finishing on a broken bone seemed not well, but then I got super jealous of him because his doctors told him he had good bone density, and that he was healing well. And I’m well like, “Well, son of a bitch, how do you have good bone density after years doing nothing but bike racing?” Dude does not lift weight or do any other cross training and he has good bone density? That seems very unfair to me.
Trevor Raab:
Yeah.
Joan Hanscom:
“I think you suck.”
Trevor Raab:
He told me that, too. And he was like, “Oh yeah.” The timeline his doctor gave him was so much shorter than mine. And I was like, “Oh, come on. I want mine to be in … ” And I still had my cast on when I ran into him and he’s out of the cast, and he is like, “Oh yeah, it hurts a little bit, but I’m out riding.” And I was just starting to ride with the cast outside. And I was like, “Oh, okay.” I’m still here, but it’s off now and everything’s back to normal-ish.
Joan Hanscom:
Cool. Let’s talk a little bit about your day job, what we’ll call your grown up job. You work from Bicycling magazine. What’s your actual title at bicycling? Is it just photographer, staff photographer, photo editor? What’s what’s your real title there?
Trevor Raab:
I think it’s just technically photographer. It might be written as staff photographer sometimes, but photographer or staff photographer. Yeah. And it’s working for bicycling, but we’re also part of a group. So do work for Runner’s World, Popular Mechanics, as well as a website called Best Products. But that’s not as much as the other ones. That’s why I think-
Joan Hanscom:
I think it’s been interesting, Bicycling has had a bit of a renaissance, I think. For a while they were the biggest bicycling magazine ever. And then they went through a period, I think, where they struggled a bit or not struggled. They certainly never lost their big circulation. And that’s unique to bicycling. this just incredibly powerful circulation that you have, and now your digital piece, but bicycling definitely had a period of time where I think it was not the cool kids’ publication.
Trevor Raab:
Oh yeah.
Joan Hanscom:
And I don’t-
Trevor Raab:
We’re not.
Joan Hanscom:
And I think it feels like, anyway, that there’s been a strong pivot on content at Bicycling and just a different type of relevance. And I wonder what thinking is on that. And I also, my observation and you can tell me your opinion, that the pivot in the positioning of Bicycling or the pivot in Bicycling’s relevance is really [inaudible 00:10:31] up incredibly well with how people consume [inaudible 00:10:36] now or how people play bikes now. I think, broadly speaking, back in the day, people were either a rodeo or a mountain biker and you were racing 28 weekends, a row of crits, or you were a mountain biker and never the two should meet.
Trevor Raab:
Yeah.
Joan Hanscom:
And I feel now like people are less about identifying as one or the other, and more identifying as cyclists, and they want to do all the things. And I think in that space is where Bicycling really shines. That’s at least my observation, but then you’re pulling in a whole lot of social content as well, that I think is different for Bicycling. And it’s been really interesting to see. So I’m curious to hear, how much you have your hand on that and much you see that alignment happening, and directionally, what you feel like is going on in your professional life.
Trevor Raab:
Yeah. Definitely, it’s an ongoing … The whole like content, how to navigate this new digital age of cycling media has been really a challenge for everyone. Not necessarily a bad challenge, but it’s something that the team works on all the time and I’ll inject my opinions every now and then on what I think is happening because I always say, “We’re all working for this brand because we love the thing that we’re covering, whether it’s Runner’s World or Bicycling, we’re all the people who would be looking at these sites if we weren’t working there.”
Trevor Raab:
So when I feel like I see something that if I was the consumer seeing it, I would change it or want it different. So I’ll say stuff about that and the photo side, we’re just trying to like make the best visuals possible to help tell a story. Or we have more in depth photo essays where we hire other photographers that are out wherever in Colorado, shooting stories. But at the end of the day, our is to produce images that are either going to do a service or just add to the stories.
Trevor Raab:
And back to what you were saying about the content shifting, and I do agree, it’s less about your a racer or you’re a mountain biker, you’re a bike packer. It seems like now as a whole, people are dabbling in everything, like you said. So we definitely see that. And I think the test team and most of the people who ride are all okay with stepping into different aspects of cycling that may not be their number one source of cycling, that elitist, like, “I’m a crit racer, I’m a roadie, and that’s all I’m going to do. And what you’re doing is wrong.” Kind of attitude that a lot of cycling media may have had in the past has fizzled out at Bicycling, which I think is good.
Trevor Raab:
And we’re trying to find ways. At the end of the day, we just want more people to ride bikes and be happy riding bikes. And that goes for this, that idea of riding all the bikes and also just showing anyone who may pick up a magazine that they’re welcome in the cycling community. And I think that’s a big push for us, is we want it to feel like a space that like any person or anyone that sees a bike and thinks it might be for them, we want them to be like, “Yeah, it is. It’s something that you can do, and you can love, too, like everyone else who’s reading this magazine.” I guess, is where I’m getting at that.
Joan Hanscom:
Yeah. And I think that’s an interesting segue to one of the things that I really wanted to talk to you about today, is that you have a very cool idea, a concept that you’re currently fleshing out a little bit for an internship this summer. And really, I wanted to have you on the podcast to talk about it. A, because I think it’s very cool, but B, maybe somebody listening to this podcast is going to be able to step in, and help you out, and help you achieve this thing. So teasing it up like that, tell our listeners a little bit about what you’ve conceived of for an internship this summer.
Trevor Raab:
All right. Yeah. The whole idea I had, I was talking to a photographer that I know. He’s out in California, Michael Cedeno. And I believe I said his last name right. But we were talking just about the photo industry and the state of things. And I think I’ll do a little preface first. The idea would be to be able to get together some kind of kit. And I know one of the biggest struggles for a starting photographer is having the proper gear to do the job. It’s similar to the world of bikes. There is a bar for entry and it’s not always an easy hurdle. So the idea would be, be able to put together a little kit, it’s a bag and camera lens or two, whatever, something that could be used by an intern.
Trevor Raab:
And the idea would be to give it to an intern from an underserved community, because I guess the idea came about thinking about the bike world, the bike world’s bar for entry, and then thinking about through working in photography in the bike world. And when I look at who’s shooting photography in the bike world, it’s a lot of people like me, White dudes from wherever. And I know there’s talent out there, and you see it. And there’s a lot of people who, it’s just I know there’s a lot of people working through Community Bikes, seeing Community Bikes around Allentown.
Trevor Raab:
And there’s a bunch of kids with passion for bikes, but then you don’t want something like money and not being able to afford a bike or not being able to afford a camera to be the reason that they never follow that path. So the idea would be to have this kit set up to be used by someone from an underserved community, to be able to do the internship. And it wouldn’t be just like, “Here’s gear good luck.” I’d want to help mentor them, and work with them, and help them grow into the world of cycling photography. I think it could be a really fun little journey and just get some new-
Joan Hanscom:
Well-
Trevor Raab:
… people in.
Joan Hanscom:
I think it’s interesting because it solves not just one but two issues. So if we’re trying to make cycling more inclusive, I think people need to see themselves in the sport. And if the only images they see are images taken by, no offense, White guys. What do White guys tend to shoot? White guys tend to shoot other White guys.
Trevor Raab:
Yeah.
Joan Hanscom:
And so if you bring a different perspective, everybody tends to shoot where they are, right? Whether that’s-
Trevor Raab:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Joan Hanscom:
… mentally, emotionally, or actually physically, I think you just bring a new set of eyes onto the sport and a new perspective onto the sport. So not only are you helping somebody develop skills, who may have a barrier to entry on the equipment costs, but you’re also essentially, then, by the content they produce helping reduce barriers to entry for people who see the images, with the assumption that people are shooting where they are. So if you’re not a wealthy, White dude shooting and you’re shooting in your own community, you may be opening the opportunity for people to see themselves in the sport, too, which is super cool.
Trevor Raab:
Yeah. And I think when Bicycling was trying to hatch plans and focus on making sure that we do make the world of bicycling a more inclusive place, thinking about all that, I don’t know if it sounds good or bad to say this, but I felt lucky, having the velodrome, especially those summers that we have people from around the world coming in. You go into the infield at the velodrome, and it’s just like you have people from every corner of the world, all the way on the other side in Australia, and you have the Trinidad and Tobago crew, and everyone’s there. And it’s not like you’re hearing different languages throughout the infield. And it’s not just the same bike racer copied and past a bunch of times in the infield. It’s people that look every way. You have like the tall, skinny guy, and short, stocky guy.
Trevor Raab:
I think, in bike racing, the velodrome shows that anybody, any body, could be on a bike and racing, because especially track racing, there’s an event for you. No matter what you are, physiology, anything, you can find an event that you can thrive in at the track. And I think that’s one of the cool things at track racing is you can sit there and watch a 90 lap endurance race with a bunch of guys that can do six watts a kilo off a climb. And then you can watch a sprint that lasts 15 seconds and you’re equally interested in these two events. And they’re so, so different. And then the people who are involved in the events are also all over the map.
Joan Hanscom:
Yeah.
Trevor Raab:
And it’s just, I don’t know. I felt lucky that I had a place to watch and be part of bike racing that was much more diverse than a lot of other. You show up to a road race in the middle of where, and it’s just like the same guy copied, the same women copied and pasted. And I mean it doesn’t feel bad to be there, but you’re like, “It’d be nice to have a variety of people showing up to all of these events.”
Joan Hanscom:
Yeah. I think that you’re right. And I think it was my first season at the track, I remember, and this is funny and this is no slight to Eddie, but I remember looking at Eddie Dawkins and thinking, “I didn’t know bike racers could look like that. Because he is a mountain of a human being.” Right?
Trevor Raab:
Yeah.
Joan Hanscom:
He is gigantic. And I’m coming from a road background, used to some very wispy fellas. And then there was Eddie Dawkins, and I was just like, “Wow, I didn’t know bike racer could look like that. He is mountain of a human.” That’s just one example, but you’re right. Just the incredible diversity of nations that comes and races is really impressive. And I think we’ll see a bunch of that coming back this summer, which is super cool. But then I think the other really nice thing about track racing and I’ve said it a billion times on the pod is that for kids who want to do it, the bar of entry of access to a bicycle is actually not there either. Right?
Trevor Raab:
Yeah.
Joan Hanscom:
It’s one of those things where we have the bike, so you don’t have to buy a bike to see if you like it. And so I think that lowers a bar to entry as well. And certainly we’ve seen that in our community programs, not just for the kids’ programming, but for the adult programming, too, certainly with all the women’s stuff, as we’ve tried to bring women into the sport, well, you don’t want to go out and buy a multi thousand dollar a bike unless you know you’re actually going to like it and have fun.
Trevor Raab:
Yeah.
Joan Hanscom:
And so the track is unique in that way, too. You can’t rock up to a crit and just grab a bike from a bike barn. You know?
Trevor Raab:
Yeah.
Joan Hanscom:
So I think track has so much potential in that regard, and certainly everything that Star Track does would be a testament to that as well, that, by having access to these bikes, you really do open up the potential for participation for a lot more people across the spectrum. So I agree with you, it’s super cool to track. And certainly your photography at the track has been really terrific and you’ve-
Trevor Raab:
Thank you.
Joan Hanscom:
… captured a lot of that. So I know you’ve had a really, I don’t know, a good eye for capturing that flavor at the track, which I’ve appreciated.
Trevor Raab:
Yeah. Thank you. I think the track is one of those places. The track is a really, really amazing place to photograph, but it’s also an extremely challenging place, because at the end of the day, the thing that gets me excited about shooting at the track, the racing’s exciting, but it’s figuring out ways to show that and show what’s happening without it being the same thing over and over again, because it’s, obviously, going to take those pictures of whoever’s winning the race, coming around, turn two. But you can get stuck in that rut pretty easy of just like, “There’s the bike race, there’s the bike race, there’s the bike race. And then it’s over.”
Trevor Raab:
But finding the little things that are happening around the track, especially when you have a good crowd come out and you have a good showing in the infield, and you have people warming up listening to different music. You have friends who’ve been there all day in the hot sun, just going delirious in the infield. You have all of that. And then you have the people coming. And you can see there’s kids that have never seen a bike go so fast. And they’re just mesmerized by it, watching over the boards. And then there’s the regulars that are always there. And it’s just there’s a lot happening in a small space. And I’ve always found that’s a really good challenge photographically.
Trevor Raab:
When I was in college and I did a silly little project where I was feeling like I was uninspired of anything. I couldn’t figure out what I wanted to do, photo project-wise. So I had this favorite Chinese restaurant called Ming’s Noodle. I hope they’re still in business. But they had really, really good food. But it was a little hole in the wall, in the sense that it was a tiny, tiny little takeout place with three tables. And I was like, “Okay, I’m going to take a little camera.” I talked to them first and was like, “This is what I want to do.” And I wanted to sit just in there. I would buy lunch or dinner, whatever I was doing. And I would just sit in that restaurant and photograph this tiny, tiny little space. And the idea that, because I was there so much and saw everything, it would force me to see it in a new way.
Trevor Raab:
So then, the track is a similar sense. The first day at the track, you’re just overwhelmed with things. There’s things flying around, there’s people everywhere. And then you finish that part of it. And then it becomes this fun challenge of, “How can I keep showing this place in a unique way?” And you do figure out where the good light is at what time, and what spots work for portraits, what spots are really good. But then like you find another spot that you haven’t shot in, in weeks. You’re like, “Oh, I haven’t been up to the top shooting back down into the track in a while.” And it’s a fun challenge just to figure out what you can do next.
Trevor Raab:
And I think when we had Matt Jones there, too. Matt hustled so much and it was just fun. Because then with him being the intern, it was me and Dan photographing with Matt. And you all can feed off of each other, and you get to the end of the day, and you see what everyone else photographed. And I like that part, too, the sharing. Like, “Oh, this is what I’m excited about.” And then what Matt was excited about or Dan was excited about is like, “This is what I got.” And it’s all so drastically different. And you’re like, “We’re at this little oval in the middle of Pennsylvania, and we all end up getting these like really cool, different shots.” And I think just ends up being a pretty rewarding experience photographing there. And you get to meet a lot of cool people. There’s always characters. So it’s highly enjoyable.
Joan Hanscom:
So if you’re successful in getting this internship program off the ground, are you going to take them out to the track to shoot?
Trevor Raab:
Am I going to take them there?
Joan Hanscom:
Yeah.
Trevor Raab:
Yeah. The plan would be, I don’t know how often it would be, if I’d be there all the time, but I would definitely want to be there at least sometimes to work with them, but then also let them do their own thing, and check in, and see, just be there to answer questions, whether it’s technical or anything else. I don’t know. I think that would be ideal, but I wouldn’t want to just let them off on their own and without me.
Joan Hanscom:
So to get into the nuts and bolts of this a little bit. So you said you’re looking to essentially put together a basic photography kit for this intern. If people want to support you in that, how can they reach you, Trevor? How can they reach out to you? So if you own a camera store, and you like what Dan is saying, and you’re listening to us, how do you reach out to Trevor and help support this endeavor? Or if you have old camera equipment lying around your house and you don’t use it, because you thought you were going to become a photographer in COVID and it didn’t work out, how do we help Trevor get his kit together?
Trevor Raab:
Oh yeah. I’d say you could either, if you are on Instagram, you could just message me on there. Just TrevorRaab, one word, or you can email me. It’s RaabTrevor@gmail.com. Those are probably the best two ways to get ahold of me. Instagram would probably be the most direct line of communication, but email’s a little bit more formal and I can have a better record of it, then. I don’t know. But whatever works. If you see me walking down the street, you can stop me.
Joan Hanscom:
Cool.
Trevor Raab:
You don’t know what I look like.
Joan Hanscom:
Maura will include that in the show notes so that if people miss that, or if you’re driving and listening to the pod, feel free. You’ll be able to find those things in the show notes if you could not remember, so you can help out Trevor. And Trevor, anything else you want our listeners to know this year or that you’re looking forward to, that you think that you think we need to know? Or are we have we reached the end-
Trevor Raab:
Let me think.
Joan Hanscom:
… of our discussion?
Trevor Raab:
I don’t know. I think just mainly just come back, come out to the track, and see what we do. And if like you’re someone who’s just interested in photography, and you’re at the track, and you see one of us walking around with cameras, if you want to say hi and talk to us, we’re always … I’ve gotten stuck in a few different, good conversations throughout the years there, and don’t be afraid to talk to us. And if anyone’s listening to this who’s been thinking about coming to track, I definitely say you should. And if you do, then we’ll take nice pictures of you, if you want to race there. Or if your family’s in the stands, eating fries or whatever. We’ll take pictures of that, too.
Joan Hanscom:
Cool. Well, Trevor, thanks for joining us today. I hope it helps. I hope we helped spread the word about your cool project.
Trevor Raab:
Yeah, thanks for-
Joan Hanscom:
And if you’re listening to this check out Trevor’s work on both his Instagram feed and of course for Bicycling magazine, because he takes the nice snaps. And you can occasionally see his work on our Valley Preferred Cycling Center feeds as well. So check out Trevor’s work. It’s worth the time. And again, thanks for joining us. And I hope you get to do all the bike racing, and no broken bones, and have a good 2022 season. And if you ever need a warm place to come ride, you’re welcome to come out to California. We’ve got lots of those hills here to suffer up. So consider yourself invited out to do some California riding if you need a break.
Trevor Raab:
Thanks. Thank you so much. Yeah.
Joan Hanscom:
Cool.
Trevor Raab:
And good luck on your 2022.
Joan Hanscom:
Thanks. This has been the Talk of the T-Town podcast with our guest, Trevor Raab. Check out his cool stuff. And if you like the pod, and you like what you hear, give us a like, or a thumbs up, or a heart, or a star on wherever you choose to consume your podcasts. Thanks again for listening.
Joan Hanscom:
Thank you for listening. This has been the Talk of the T-Town podcast. I’m your host, Joan Hanscom. Thank you for joining us for this week’s episode. Head over to our website at thevelodrome.com, where you can check out the show notes and subscribe so you’ll never miss an episode. (silence).